London-Glasgow-Edinburgh-Paris-Madrid-Porto-Lisbon-Barcel...

Flo
Traveller
10724 comments

Hi!

I wouldnt add anything more to your list as you have planned quite a lot for 22 days. For me. there are two critical parts along your route:

Edinburgh/Glasgow - Paris: What are your plans for this journey? Ferry or Eurostar? As you have probably planned I'd strongly recommend the night train Edinburgh/Glasgow - London. If you are then planning to continue by ferry, expect arrival in Paris at ~1600 - 1800, depending on which ferry you get and if you travel down from Calais by TGV or regular trains.

Madrid - Porto - Lisbon - Barcelona: I'd suggest travelling Paris - Porto (by TGV to Irun, by Sud Express to Coimbra and then by IC to Porto) - Lisboa - Madrid (with Lusitania) - Barcelona (by AVE)

Other stuff: ;)

Edinburgh/Glasgow: 1 day is certainly enough for a short visit to Glasgow. If you have time left, spend it in Edinburgh rather than Glasgow (that's what even Glaswegians tell me...). There is an excellent train connection between both cities with trains running every 15 minutes - so you could stay some days at Edinburgh and visit Glasgow only as a day trip.

Petit Train Jaune: Even though it's a really nice ride I'd think about doing it another time. You lose quite some time - Barcelona to Nice wouldnt be possible within a day then.
Venice: It's considered to be a very expensive city so maybe you can save some money (if you want) by staying somewhere a little further away and making one or two day trips to Venice

Rom - Venlo: Probably (I didnt check with the schedule planner) best is to take the Rom - Paris night train and then continue via Lille, Bruxelles to Venlo.


Hope that helps for a start.


Flo 8)

Bagpipe89
Traveller
13 comments

Hi,
as far as i know u are from germany,too, so i can tell you i want to go to London by DB London spezial i will go to DB tomorrow and ask whether its that awesome i heard it should be (49€ to London)
For the Scotland - Paris thingy, yes i wanted to take the ferry on the way back. But i dont think i will arrive that late, i looked a bit around and calculated that i will arrive at London at about 7 o clock, 8 hours to Paris (dunno the exact calculation sth like London-Dover 1.5h+ferry 3h+calais-paris 3,5h) so i should be there at about 15 o clock, thus you saying my trip is a lot to do, i now feel like spending one night in paris (aww really bad title there^^) and then going for a night train at the next day to either Portugal or Spain.

But u didnt explain why u recommend to go Paris-Porto(Sud Express)-Lisbon-Madrid-Barcelona instead of Paris-Madrid(Elipsos)-Porto-Lisbon-Barcelona, or i just didnt get it. I wanted it that way, because otherwise i would have a 18,5 hour journey at once, and i guess its very long^^. The other thing would only be 13,5h, which is also a lot, but i guess i will really enjoy that 5 hours walking around.

The Glasgow-Edinburgh bit is good to know, so i will search for something in Edinburgh to sleep and not in Glasgow, will probably end in coming from London to Glasgow spend the day there and go to Edinburgh in the evening/night to sleep there 1/2 days.

The Point with the petit train jaune is that it would quite solve the Paris-Portugal/Spain bit, coz id simply start early in Paris to Barcelona and then could go like -Lisbon-Porto-Madrid , but there it would be great to know how flexible i could be at this point, because i would really like seeing the pyrenees but i guess if its rainy or full of clouds it is not that nice.

Rom-Venlo: Your proposal sounds liek wasting the last day, but there i probably have to look how long it would take to leave Rom early and then go to Venlo in comparison to take the night train. didnt check now but i guess the night train arrives between 7 and 10 at Paris roughly i would calculate 4-5 hours to venlo so it would only be between 11 and 15 o clock and so there are 13-9 hours left (ok probably not that much but 10 hours sounds realistic) so id have to think about spending some time in Lille because i also was in Brussels already.

Still thanks for the fast and detailed answer

Marco

Flo
Traveller
10724 comments

Hi!

I'm from Austria. ;)

About the London to Paris trip: I forgot that you now have the fast service from St Pancras to Dover via HS1 - that of course saves you a lot of time, because we had to go Euston > Victoria and then ~2h two Dover last summer. If the train from Edinburgh is on time (0640) you might catch the 0710 service from St Pancras to Dover (0821). Then the 0915 or 1000 ferry to Calais and you could indeed make it to Paris until ~1500. :)

I proposed the Iberian Tour becuase it would result in ~6h less trainride overall. But your idea of including the Petit Train Jaune on your way Paris - Barcelona is also very good. You could use the night train from Paris to Latour de Carol and the go with the Petit Train sown to Villefranche and on to Perpignan - Portbou - Barcelona. Just make sure you have a good connection in Latour de Carol.
Here is are two pics of the Pyrenées in February: [u]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2687/4538722151_75ba23c1b5_o.jpg[/u] and [u]http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2759/4539355550_ff1d95c5e5_o.jpg[/u] it still spectacular on a not so sunny day and maybe it then isnt as crowded as it can be in high season on a beautiful day.

I dont think you will find a daytime connection Rom - Venlo... :| So if you have to take the night train, Lille is certainly a nice stop along the route. As well as Antwerpen or Gent. :)


Hope you will work out the route that suits you best. If you need some opinion, help on planning... :)


Flo 8)

Bagpipe89
Traveller
13 comments

Got the final route now, after thinking a bit about what u said =)
(explanation of everything is in the text beneath)

Köln->London (DB-Spezial) 17.7
_____________________________________________________________________________
Interrail:
London->Glasgow 19/20 |(1) [u]https://rail.cc/en/london-scotland-night-train/f1840[/u]
Glasgow->Edinburgh 20. |in the evening
Edinburgh->Paris 21/22 |night train to London then to Dover, ferry,
then somehow from Calais to Paris [u]https://rail.cc/en/ferry-london-paris-england-france/f1222[/u]
Paris->Porto/Lisboa 23/24 | [u]https://rail.cc/en/night-train/irun-lisbon-th-313/73[/u]
Porto/Lisboa->Lisboa/Porto 25/26 |i will find some day train here(2)
Porto/Lisboa->Madrid 27/28 | [u]https://rail.cc/en/porto-madrid-night-train/f2269[/u]
Madrid->Barcelona 29/30 | [u]https://rail.cc/en/night-train/madrid-barcelona-estr-370/392[/u]
Barcelona->Nice 31/1.8 | (3) [u]https://rail.cc/en/train/marseille-to-nice[/u]
Nice->Milano 2/3 | day train, most likley option A), (4) [u]https://rail.cc/en/train/marseille-to-milan[/u]
Milano->Venice 4/5 | (5)
Venice->Rom 6/7 | (6)
Rom->Paris->Venlo 8/9 |(7) [u]https://rail.cc/en/venice-milan-paris-night-train/f3675[/u] |OR| 9. train(s) to germany, depends on the costs [u]https://rail.cc/en/rome-florence-munich-night-train/f3741[/u]
_____________________________________________________________________________

means in short:
London: 17/18/19
Glagow: 20.
Edinburgh: 21.
Paris: 22/23
Porto/Lisboa: 24/25
Lisboa/Porto: 26/27
Madrid: 28/29
Barcelona: 30/31
Nice: 1/2
Milano: 3/4
Venice: 5/[6]
Rome:[6]/7/8
Paris/Lille or whatever: 9. -> 9. in the evening @home

Now about the parts i have questions/concerns about or where im just thinking.
(1) The night train leaves at 23:50 in London :'( . Since i dont want to waste a Interrailday for 10 minutes, i will have to find a way to enter the train after 00:00. In the topic it says it stops at Watford at 0:10. So i have to find a way to get to watford as cheap/easy as possible. When i looked it up right there is a underground tram which goes to watford, so the questions would be: Better by train or by tram to go there(fährt überhaupt eine U-Bahn um die Zeit? *Sry too silly too say that in english*), by the way is the underground-station the same as the train-station? Dunno much bout London, is it dangerous to take this line for a poor interrailer?

(2)Due to couchsurfing i might switch Lisboa and Porto, well its 4-6 bonus travel hours, but shouldnt be that much of a problem.

(3)Well i guess thats the biggest problem. I cant find a good solution for this. The given trains([u]https://rail.cc/en/train/marseille-to-nice[/u]) somehow all suck, coz i dont want to travel at day coz it would cost me a day in some city. 2. option is to leave Barcelona very early ~16 o clock, but i want more time in Barcelona, not in Nice(arriving at 7:xx then). The night train Barcelona->Milan is very expensive and doesnt seem to stop at Nice. [Maybe i have to combine this with point (4) or (5)]

(4)Similar to (3). I want to arrive in Milano earlier, Nice is as far as i know a very nice (very funny word joke!!!) little city, but to be honest Milano is mor eimportant to me, eventhough i dont know why, because Milano seems to be a city for shopping only^^. Any suggestions about that? Maybe i should arrive early in Nice and leave late the same day, so i wont spend a night there, but have more time to do things in Barcelona/Milano.

(5) cant really fint connections to or from Venice to Italy, except for this train which goes the wrong way and probably doesnt exist in the other way round <.< ([u]https://rail.cc/en/venice-milan-paris-night-train/f3675[/u]). So how to get from Milan to Venice. And im thinking of cutting 1 day off at Venice, what do you think about it, it looks like a pretty small city whose only atrraction is that she is build on top of water^^. Its definatly a must for me to see this, but i doubt its worth to spend 2 days there.

(6) how to get from Venice to Rom? cant find sth, do i have to go to Milan (at all? Or) via the night train mentioned above and then to Rom, or are there better direct conenctions.

(7) If i take the train to munic, what do i have to pay/how is it calculated coz its from Italy to germany, does it count for Italy or for Germany or for (most likely) both?

Peter
Traveller
9337 comments

Hi.

1) Train leaves [b]Watford Junction[/b] at 00:11h
You can reach it directly by starting from [b]Euston Rail Station[/b]. Should be GBP 4 as it is all in one zone.
[u]http://www.tfl.gov.uk/[/u]
And it is no problem to get there even at midnight. But I would calculate some extra time to be save.
Ask at a ticket window for details - all I ever went too was very nice.

2) ..... :)

3) It is definitely a long journey.
The fastes possible day connection is this one using a Talgo (+ EUR 6,50) and an TEOZ train (+ EUR 3):

Barcelona Estacion de Franca Dep: 0845
Montpellier Saint-Roch Arr: 1322

Montpellier Saint-Roch Dep: 1416
Nice Ville Arr: 1838

But there is the schedule planer giving you much better details: [u]https://rail.cc/en/search-interrail-route[/u]

The direct night train to Milano doesn't stops in Nice.

4) Like above. The schedule planer will help you to find your way. I can't decide for you.
If you want to stay only for some hours in Nice, think about the direct night train even being expensive. But it will save you a lot of travel time.
Doing it by day trains will be at least 1 day - or you will have some changes with several TGVs and other trains with supplements. So the night train is expensive - but relaxing. At the same time you save the money for a hostel. In total it might be even a good deal.

5) Milano-Venice by free IC, running at least every hour. Use the schedule planer with the date of tomorrow.
As there is always an update in the schedules in June, you can't find the schedules for August.

6) the same like (5)

So with all the help you got especially from Flow, support our project and buy your official InterRail pass at [ux]https://rail.shop/interrail[/ux] ... and don't give your money to an anonymous company. thank you, Peter :)

Flo
Traveller
10724 comments

Hi!

It's good to have such a detailed schedule for a journey like yours where you plan to visit a lot of places. :)

1) The night train stops at Watford Junction, the mainline train station of Watford. Whereas the Metro (Metropolitan Line) has another terminus in Watford, about 2km away from the train station. The last tube arrives at Watford after the night train leaves at Watford Junction, so tube could be an option for you. A single ticket is 3,40 GBP so not really expensive. Travel time from Baker Street is ~42 minutes. So, if you leave around 2230 you should be fine to get to Watford Junction in time.
A more convenient option, however, would be to use London Overground service from Euston station (ironically where the sleeper leaves) to Watford Junction. I'd recommend to get the 2257 departure that arrives at Watford at 2344. There'd be a later connection as well, dep 2317, arr 0004 that could serve as a kind of backup. Price is the same as for the tube - 3,40 GBP.
If you have an Oyster card you can use it as well for these services. :)
I'd not recommend to just hop on the train and hope for your luck...and as for safety...one never knows but I think you can feel save on both tube and overground.

2) Yup. You can get the reservations for the IC/AP trains at short notice at the stations (ie if you decide to go to Porto first it is sufficient to get it when you change trains at Coimbra).

3) Well, the daytime trains along the mediterranean coast are kinda slow, but you dont really have another option that those mentioned in the link. You're right, the Elipsos night train doesnt stop at Nice because it takes another route via Modane. What you could try is to go Barcelona - Narbonne - Toulouse and back to Nice with Lunéa night train but you have to hope for a better connections in summer timetable. :| Nice is nice indeed, but maybe think about going there another time?

4) I'd reommend the Elipsos night train to Milano..there is no sensible way to include Nice on the Barcelona - Milano route unless you are willing to travel during the day.

5) Milan - Venice run hourly fast ES City/Frecciabianca services, 10€ supplement. Alternative slower free connections available as well. Search with the travel planner but for a date prior to June 13th as the Italian database might not be updated yet (there's a minor timetable change on that date).

6) Same as 5), there are hourly fast AV/Frecciargento services, 10€ supplement. There are some other reasonable fast but free services with IC as well. And you have a night train: [u]https://rail.cc/en/naples-rome-venice-night-train/f1514[/u]

7) What do you mean? If you take a through train with a supplement, you have to pay the supplement only once. But you'll need a regular ticket that covers the stretch within Germany, speak at least Kufstein - München (there might be cheap offers for Innsbruck - München or other destinations as well). You could also go instead of via Rosenheim via Garmisch-Partenkirchen.

Ouh, Peter...too fast for me! ;)

Bagpipe89
Traveller
13 comments

I hope that will be my final questions, but im sure that theire not :D

At first i tried to figure out if that connection workscoz then i will at least have some hours in Nice :D :

01.08.2010:
Barcelona Sants Dep: 1642 | Talgo de Jour | supplement EUR 6,50
Narbonne Arr: 2013
Narbonne Dep: 2204 | TGV | supplement EUR 3-10
Toulouse-Matabiau Arr: 2317
Toulouse-Matabiau Dep: 0030 | Corail Lunea night train | supplement EUR 6,50 - 20
Marseille-St-Charles Arr: 0509
Nice Ville Arr: 0758

02.08.2010:
Nice Ville Dep: 1749 | EC (Eurocity) with supplement EUR 5
Milano Centrale Arr: 2250

I tried to figure out myself with the shedule-planner, but somehow i fail with it <.< . In addition this cruel timetable cange in mid June...

Secondly i wanted to ask(stupid question?^^), whether i need a sleeping bag for Nighttrains(most likley i will take couchette)
As third the 2nd class seats in the London-Scotland nighttrain or in the Rome-Paris nighttrain are this normal seats like in every daytrain or these sleeping seats which u can lay back a lot?

Whats up wuth the reservations? Ok in Uk u cannot book in advance from not Uk, but it sounded like its sufficient to buy them 2 days in advance. Italy sounded like u can book them e.g. @ Düsseldorf Hbf, but whats with Spain and Portugal, sounded like its not possible there(2days in advance ok, when i arrive?) and whats with the TGV from Paris to Irun? Or the (i hope that it exists) Corail Lunea Night train to Nice? Maybe im a bit too much worried, but it would be a big catastrophy if i wouldnt get one of the trains because i probably need to go by day-trains then and miss 1 day at the next city, and the stupid DB-prospect says that reservations might be much in demand in July-August and guess when im traveling? July-August -_-'
Finally, i bought the London spezial tickets for the 17.07 leaving Colgne at 8:xx, but im was a bit wondered because the DB shedule says cruel things ( [ux]https://rail.shop/bahn[/ux] ) about
check in at exactly the time i arrive in bruxelles, i dont really get what is ment by it. I found that going on this train is like @ an airport with controls etc., so i wondered if i couldnt take my pocket knife on the tour, coz i cant have it with me at this train??? Did anyone of you go with this train?

OK now the post again is 2 times as long as it should have been -_- . Its all the LINKs fault!!!!!!!!!!
A VERY BIG thanks to Peter and especially Flow for the help i guess i would totally fail the journey without this forum^^ (i know buy at [ux]https://rail.shop/interrail[/ux] :D )
Marco

Flo
Traveller
10724 comments

Hi!

The schedule planner shows me the following connection for Barcelona - Nice:

Barcelona Sants 1642 - 2015 Narbonne :arr: ~6,50€ reservation, attention: dont get this reservation in Spain as it is likely that it will be more expensive (dont really know why but I saw prices around the double somewhere at the RENFE website whereas I once got this reservation in Austria for 6,50)!
Narbonne 2158 - 2309 Toulouse :arr: TGV, as you arent travelling on a LGV (high speed line) it should only be 3€
Toulouse 0025/0033 - 0807 :arr: according to the route planner that train [b]doesnt run daily[/b]! If possible, plan your journey accordingly to get there on a day the train runs. You should be able to get the running dates in the schedule planner if you use the train numbers: 4630 or 4620 (depending on the date). I'll have a look at the SNCF website too if I can find more information about days of running.

Nice - Milano: The direct EC services have ceased running early this year. You'll have to change now at Ventimiglia to an IC to Milano - the timings are almost the same though.

I found that connection for tomorrow - check again after the timetable change:

Nice 1753 - 1815 Monaco
Monaco 1823 - 1848 Ventimiglia :arr: the change at Monaco is probably due to some construction work along the route - usually no trains begin or end there! So check again before you leave.
Ventimiglia 1858 - 2250 Milano :arr: IC, 3€ reservation, not compulsory! But recommended since reservation is compulsory for most other kinds of tickets and reserved seats arent labelled.

No sleeping bag required for couchettes or sleepers - linen is provided (and included). If you are travelling in seated accomodation, a light summer sleeping bag might be comfortable but isnt 100% necessary - a comfy sweater is enough usually (if the coach has air condition is might feel a little cold sometimes).
London - Scotland seated accomodation is very comfortable - reclining seats :)
Paris - Roma: couchettes and sleepers only

About reservations:
UK: It isnt possible to make reservations for the UK from rest of Europe - it's the same the other way round. But like I said you should be fine making your night train resevations when you get there. You could do so at Dover Priory (train station) as soon as you arrive in the UK. What you could try is to make them over the phone directly from Scotrail - I once had a friend (from Glasgow) making a reservation for six persons which I could have collected at Glasgow Central but in the end we ended up staying two days longer...
All other reservations should be possible to make at a DB station (if you want to make them in advance). Also for Spain and international trains to/from Portugal. But sometimes there might be difficulties which arent really to predict. So you just have to try to get them - maybe try more times until you get them. It took me three visits at Graz Hbf to get all reservations for our trip in 2008... :)
Oh, for spanish trains it is sometimes neccessary to type in T (turista) instead of 2 (second class) in the computer (not all staff at the counter might know that). It is also a good idea to have a sheet with all relevant information (day, time, train number and category) with you when you make the reservations.

Eurostar:
There is a check-in similar to the one on airports. I used it in 2003 so cant quite remember if you could enter with a pocket kinfe.. :| Maybe have a look at their website. But I think you'd be fine (there are similar checks on spanish long-distance trains and until know, a pocket knife was fine - I guess they are searching mostly for firearms and explosives). And if DB has this particular connection (link doesnt work :P ) advertised you'll be fine arriving in Bruxelles just in time. ICE/Thalys arrive close to the Eurostar platforms in Bruxelles Midi so you wont have to walk very far.

Uff, quite a long post again... :)


Flo 8)

Bagpipe89
Traveller
13 comments

Hi again,

got a few questions again:
1.TGV-Reservation(online): What do I have to choose in the box Treuekarte ( [u]http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/2146/44355071.jpg[/u] )? If I leave it as it is a reservation is only 1,50, isnt that too cheap to be true?^^ ( [u]http://img641.imageshack.us/i/88056162.jpg/[/u] ).

2. Im thinking of only doing 1 day in Mailand and therefor being able to stay 2 days in Nice, someone was in Mailand already? Is it good? Is Nice better? Is 1 day enough?

Marco

Flo
Traveller
10724 comments

Hi!

Leave the box Treuekarte as it is. It is just the translation from the French expression Programme de fidélité - no actual bonus card or something.

I personally prefer Nice to Milano...so one day is enough in my opinion. Dont miss the Duomo and Galleria Vittorio Emanuele II though. ;) If you stay two days in Nice, you could make a short trip to Antibes, Grasse, Monaco. Or go to Villefranche-sur-Mer just some ten minutes or so away from Nice. Nice little old village at a small bay and you could walk to Villa Rothschild which is quite nice as well. :)


Flo 8)

Bagpipe89
Traveller
13 comments

So, thanks again Peter and flow for the help, would have been much more difficult without you :D , and especially because you are always answering the same questions more or less^^. Im leaving tomorrow, so for now you are rid of me ;) . I will try to post though, how it went with the ferry from dover to calais on friday or saturday to clear that finally^^.

Marco

Peter
Traveller
9337 comments

Hi Marco.

So I wish you a lot of sunny travel days (which shouldn't be a problem for now in Central Europe)... :)

And would be very nice to hear your experience with the Dover-Calais ferry ... I don't know if you read it at one of the topics but someone did the trip a week ago and just asked for an InterRail discount at P&O and they sold him a ticket for EUR 16 one-way without the return thing and so on ... :)

Have fun, Peter :)

Flo
Traveller
10724 comments

Yeah, have fun! :)


Flo 8)