Lisbon - Paris - Brussels - Amsterdam

Flo
Traveller
10724 comments

I fear you cant do the route only with the train (except you want to sqeeze Bruxelles in one day). Look at the scheme below (days marked x would be travel days):

1 Fuentes de Onoro (border) 2232 - Salamanca 0002 (no change of trains, just the station closest to midnight) x
2 Salamanca 0005 - Paris 1345 x (change trains in Hendaye, TGV to Paris)
3 Paris
4 Paris
5 Paris - Bruxelles x (Doable in 1h22 with expensive Thalys service, with slower trains without supplement ~5h30.
6 Bruxelles - Amsterdam x (Dont use Thalys here, there are IC trains every hour nearly as quick as Thalys, ~2h50.
7 Amsterdam
8 Amsterdam
9 Amsterdam 0826 - Vitoria/Gasteiz 0014 x (Thalys to Paris, TGV to Irun)
10 Vitoria/Gasteiz 0015 - Fuentes de Onoro 0634 x

You see you lose quite a lot of time because of the Sud Espresso. One problem is that you cant use the 1900 rule the evening before your pass is valid.
You will have to take the plane either for Lisboa - Paris or Amsterdam - Lisboa. Of course you can also fly go and return. If you do so, you may think about using Thalys at least between Paris and Bruxelles as it will save you quite a bit of money.

I think couchsurfing might be a good idea but you could also take your tent with you; I've stayed in all three cities at the campsites and had no trouble.

elmariachi
Traveller
24 comments

Thanks! So... let's say a buy a one way ticket to Amsterdam, will the Sud-express be free of charge? It isn't if I depart from Portugal, because of the regulations (I live in Portugal).

I don't think there's much to see or do in Brussels... so one day is enough.

I don't know anything about those campsites, and that is a VERY interesting option. Can you give more info or show me a place that has that info? Like... are they far from the center/points of interest, mobility, etc.

Thanks so far :P

Flo
Traveller
10724 comments

A one way train or plane ticket?

Sud Espresso has a supplement of ~6,50€ in a seated compartment. One thing you could do is to buy a ticket from the border to Salamanca, this would save you one day of your ticket. ;)

Campsites:

I've wrote about the campsite in Paris the other day: [u]https://rail.cc/en/paris/campsite-bois-de-boulogne-paris/l874[/u]

I've stayed at a very small campsite quite in the centre of Bruxelles. It basically is the backyard of a small church but very nice and pleasant. I try to figure out where exactly it was as I dont think there will be any website. :D

In Amsterdam there is a huge campsite called www.campingzeeburg.nl Zeeburg. It's quite far away from the center, you have to take a tram first and then walk maybe 10 minutes. But it's quite nice to stay there, maybe not as cosy as the one in Bruxelles, in fact it's crowded, but it's everything there you need.

elmariachi
Traveller
24 comments

I was talking about a one way plane ticket :P the idea was to book a flight to Amsterdam and then use the Sud-Express to get back to Lisbon. My question is: do I have to pay anything for the Sud if I depart from Paris? The campsite in Amsterdam seems cool, thanks :P although I bet it's going to be VERY crowded. I'm kinda afraid of thieves but I think I'm gonna do it anyway.

elmariachi
Traveller
24 comments

I think I'll have to pass the plane ticket.. it's too expensive.. it's just not worth it to visit 3 cities in such a short time span, and if you count out bruxelles, that's just 2 cities. the BIG issue is getting out of Portugal --- to live in the far west is hard hehe

Flo
Traveller
10724 comments

With InterRail the supplement for the Sud Espresso always is ~6,50€ for seat in a compartment.

If you dont want to go by plane you could still go to Salamanca with a regular ticket and then start your InterRail pass as I suggested before.
Lisboa - Salamanca would be 49,50€, with Railplus (is this a reduction pass of CP?) 37€. Then the following trip would be possible:


1 Salamanca 0005 - Paris 1345 x (change trains in Hendaye, TGV to Paris)
2 Paris
3 Paris
4 Paris
5 Paris - Bruxelles x (Doable in 1h22 with expensive Thalys service, with slower trains without supplement ~5h30.
6 Bruxelles - Amsterdam x (Dont use Thalys here, there are IC trains every hour nearly as quick as Thalys, ~2h50.
7 Amsterdam
8 Amsterdam
9 Amsterdam 0826 - Vitoria/Gasteiz 0014 x (Thalys to Paris, TGV to Irun)
10 Vitoria/Gasteiz 0015 - Fuentes de Onoro 0634 x

Go early with no-supplement services from Paris to Bruxelles, stay one night there and continue the next morning with an IC to Amsterdam; you could spend three and a half day then in Paris, one day in Bruxelles and two and a half days in Amsterdam (dont worry, thats enough for Amsterdam in my opinion).

You would need the following supplements besides the ticket to Salamanca:

~6,50€ Sud Espresso Salamanca - Hendaye
3€ or 10€ TGV Hendaye - Paris
~27€ Thalys Amsterdam - Paris
3€ or 10€ TGV Paris - Irun
~6,50€ Sud Espresso Irun - Fuentes de Onoro
plus a train ticket from the border back home.

As an alternative you could skip Bruxelles and Amsterdam and only stay in France; there are lots of beuatiful towns along the route to Paris and in the Paris area.

elmariachi
Traveller
24 comments

I called the good people of CP and they said that they give a discount to Interrail pass owners (Railplus is another service not related) until you get to the border, so it doesn't count until you get to Spain, thus your advice is good and I don't need to buy a regular ticket to Salamanca, since my pass will only be activated there.

I think I'll do it this way. I'll look at some travel times (I saw a map but can't recall where i got it.. was it on this site?).

Thanks for the help so far :P

Flo
Traveller
10724 comments

Ok, but you should consider buying a regular ticket (maybe there is some special offer ) from the border to Salamanca as this would save you one travel day of you InterRail pass.

Train schedules: [u]https://rail.cc/en/search-interrail-route[/u]

[quote]the BIG issue is getting out of Portugal --- to live in the far west is hard hehe[/quote]

That's also why I've only been once to Portugal - but I definitely will come back soon. :D

elmariachi
Traveller
24 comments

that's what I'm not fully understanding sorry...
I would buy a regular ticket to Fuentes de Oñoro and then another regular ticket to Salamanca and then Sud-express, activating my interrail pass. It seems I'm spending more money and taking the same time as a direct trip :| it says on CP's site that if I take the train on the 1st of august after 19pm (for e.g.) the travel day would only be the 2nd of Aug. So I would arrive in Paris during the night/late evening of the 2nd of Aug.

Is this understanding correct? Gotta improve my english grammar I guess :o hehe

Flo
Traveller
10724 comments

You are partly correct about the so-called 1900-rule - only problem is that it can't be applied on the evening before your InterRail ticket starts.
That means if you're going on the 1st of Aug from Lisboa to Fuentes de Onoro (border) by regular CP ticket then you would have to to activate you IR pass there and use it only for the 126km/1h30 to Salamanca. You could use the 1900-rule and thus safe on travel day but the starting day of your IR pass would have to be 1st of Aug.
Because of that I was suggesting buying a regular ticket to Salamanca. You would arrive there at 0002 of the 2nd of Aug, could activate your IR pass there and could save one day of your pass compared to the other way.

1) CP ticket to Fuentes de Onoro, activating IR pass there: starting from Lisboa on the 1st of Aug, IR pass would be valid from 1st to 10th of Aug.
or
2) CP ticket to Fuentes de Onoro, other CP or RENFE ticket to Salamanca, activating IR pass there: starting from Lisboa on the 1st of Aug, IR pass would be valid from 2nd to 11th of Aug.

Hope this was understandable, if not I'll try again. ;)

elmariachi
Traveller
24 comments

aaah I think I get it now..

so: buying a ticket with the interrail discount would activate the pass at like 23:30 of the 1st of Aug, thus wasting a day for a mere 1hour and a half.
buying a regular ticket would only activate the pass by midnight of the 2nd of Aug, and I would arrive at Paris at the same day (2nd). :P :?:

Flo
Traveller
10724 comments

I too think you've got it now. :)
You would be wasting a whole travel day only for the short trip Fuentes de Onoro - Salamanca. By buying a regular ticket for this distance you could save this day.

elmariachi
Traveller
24 comments

humm I see... I thought that, since the pass is being activated at 23h (past 1900) it would follow the 1900-rule and we would get a free 1h30 ride :D

need to see some ticket prices then... by my quick math it could be around 300€ for all the trains. My travel buddy said that it's best to take the slow route to Bruxelles to save money. *packs a lot of books*

it got me thinking... these CP guys are robbing us :o lol

Flo
Traveller
10724 comments

Again, you could activate the pass at 23h and use the 1900-rule but then you would have to activate the pass itself the same day. By buying a ticket to Salamanca the pass would be activated only a day later, saving you one day.

Yeah, take the slow route to Bruxelles. You probably have to take Thalys anyway when you're going back to Paris and then Lisboa.
Wait, I just checked, there is the following connection:

Amsterdam 0554 - Paris 1320 (change in Antwerpen, Lille, Amiens, no supplements)
then (attention you have to go from Gare du Nord to Gare de Montparnasse, Metro 4, ~45-60min)
Paris 1550 - Lisboa 1103 (change in Irun)

[quote]
it got me thinking... these CP guys are robbing us :o lol[/quote]

At least you get the 50% discount for Lisboa - Fuentes de Onoro. ;)

elmariachi
Traveller
24 comments

I'm seeing the timetables and it's just like you said :P [u]http://www.cp.pt/cp/displayPage.do?vgnextoid=0388f9e12a584010VgnVCM1000007b01a8c0RCRD[/u]

the train gets to Fuentes de Oñoro at 22:30 (Spanish Time... I forgot we lose one hour in this trip). and it departs from Salamanca at 00:05.
so what i want to do is: buy a ticket to Oñoro, then another (regional or would I continue on the same train?) to Salamanca and from there I would take the Sud-express again, but using the IR pass. this implies having three tickets for the same trip and for the same train right?

thanks for your patience really.. I'm just discovering the marvel that is the train system :((

Flo
Traveller
10724 comments

You're welcome.

Yes, you would have to buy three tickets for one train. :)
You should be able to purchase your 50% reduced ticket Lisboa - Fuentes de Onoro as well as the standard fare ticket Fuentes de Onoro at the counter in Santa Apolonia, Rossio, Oriente etc.
Note that there is no other train at this border!

You would stay at the same train all the time. The question is how you have to deal with the supplements - ask at the counter in order to not have to pay a supplement three times.

elmariachi
Traveller
24 comments

Thanks! I'm drawing my route now hehe

I don't want to abuse :p but could you give me some coordinates to the campsites you talked about (except the one in Amsterdam, that one has a good map). I want to plan this trip as best I can..it's my first one and money isn't exactly filling my pockets :o

elmariachi
Traveller
24 comments

I can't find that non-Thalys Ams-Paris route :S the ones I'm getting have 24h travel time :o

elmariachi
Traveller
24 comments

oh and how's the return trip on the Sud? do I have to play the same trick?
these forums should have an edit option ..

Flo
Traveller
10724 comments

Amsterdam 0554 - Antwerpen 0800
Antwerpen 0806 - Lille 0954
Lille 1037 - Amiens 1158
Amiens 1213 - Paris 1320 (Corail Intercités, 1,50€ supplement I suspect)
Amiens 1218 - Paris 1412 (TER, no supplement; still enough time to go to Gare de Montparnasse for the TGV to Irun but if you want to stay on the really safe side you might consider the faster connection)

For the return trip with the Sud Espresso you could do the same thing but it would be significantly more expensive, as you would have to buy a ticket from San Sebastian to Fuentes de Onoro (613km).
Instead use your IR pass for the complete return journey to Fuentes de Onoro. Leave on day 9 in the morning from Amsterdam, then you change to TGV in Paris and in the evening in Irun to Sud Espresso. Sud Espresso arrives at 0634 of your travel day 10 in Fuentes de Onoro from where you need to buy CP ticket to Lisboa.

Campsite Bruxelles:

Camping Bruxelles Europe à ciel ouvert
chaussée de Wavre, 205 - 1050 Bruxelles
Tél. 02.640.79.67 - Fax 02.648.24.53

6€ per tent and person
Only problem: Open only from 1st of July to 31st of Aug.
No other campsites in Bruxelles - Capital Region!

Campsite Paris:

[u]http://www.campingparis.fr/boulogne_infos.html[/u]

In my second post there is also a link to a post I wrote about this campsite.

elmariachi
Traveller
24 comments

those seem fine thanks. In Amsterdam we'll most likely go to Zeeburg! it seems a cool place. And they rent bikes! is that a good option? a public transport card seems expensive (33€ for 24hrs) a bike is just 8,50€. If we want to enjoy the nightlife we will take the trams, they seem to be a good option.

what means of transport are there for the Belgian campsite? does it need reservation?

public transport passes would be good in Paris, non? or should we take the bike approach hehe? :((

Flo
Traveller
10724 comments

Going by bike is definitely a good choice for exploring Amsterdam - at least for one day of your stay. When I was in Amsterdam I used a strip ticket which wasn't that expensive.
Can't imagine the 33€ for 24h ticket.
Here are the fares of GVB:
www.gvb.nl/english/travellers/tickets-and-fares/Pages/Ticketsandfares.aspx


Going to Bruxelles campsite:
www.mivb.be/cgi-bin/cgi_rIti.exe?State=searchIti&l=3&ct=61242995565459&ts=2&to=2&lo=1|70000220|104|9300|0|-2147483648|24|147712|169657&sto=0100&td=0&de=chaussee%20de%20wavre%20205&cd=&rd=TU%2026/05/2009&hh=12%3A00&tv=&ti=1242994849014.000000&iu=334&ty=4

No reservation needed, there's only regular public transport operated by STIB.


For Paris I can recommend the Carnet (10 tickets that you buy together, 11,40€ if I remember correctly). Note that they are valid for several changes within the metro but no change is allowed between bus and bus or bus and metro.
A single ticket is 1,60€.
There is Paris Visite a travel card including public transport as well as reductions for some sights. For two days it is 14,40€.
If you want to travel a lot with metro within the city Paris Visite might be more sensible but if you want to explore the city by foot the carnet probably would be the way to go.
If you want to go from the campsite to the city centre you would need two single tickets (Campsite to Porte Maillot by bus, from there to the center by metro). This means you would need at least four tickets per person and day. That would be 4.56€ per day and person, still some € cheaper than Paris Visite.
Although there has been some effort to make Paris more bike-friendly it probabaly isn't as cool and relaxing as in Amsterdam.

Flo
Traveller
10724 comments

Hey dude!

I just found out that you officially cant get your 50% discount when your IR pass isn't already valid, sorry. You should check at the CP counter. :|

elmariachi
Traveller
24 comments

oh :( I'll check with them. The ticket to Salamanca should be cheaper anyway right? I'll go to the station next week

Flo
Traveller
10724 comments

I fear it won't. But check with the CP, maybe you'll get the discount anyway. I totally forgot this because I have a reduction card in Austria that gives me 50% discount on every travel. :|

Flo
Traveller
10724 comments

Oh, I just found this on the CP website...

elmariachi
Traveller
24 comments

I already had read that, but to be honest I never understood quite well what it meant. Does it mean that I won't need that three-ticket trick?

Flo
Traveller
10724 comments

Yes, indeed. But it also means that your trip will be shorter, as you IR pass will be active the day you leave Portugal and it still has to be valid when you come back to Portugal.

1) Lisboa - Salamanca (on Sud Espresso, IR pass starting day, no travel day needed, ~6,50€ supplement)
2) Salamanca - Paris (continue on Sud Espresso to Hendaye, first travel day needed, 3/10€ supplement for TGV)
3-8) Paris (- Bruxelles) - Amsterdam
9) Amsterdam - Vitoria/Gasteiz (TGV to Irun, then Sud Espresso, 3/10€ TGV and ~6,50€ Sud Espresso supplement)
10) Vitoria/Gasteiz - Lisboa (continue on Sud Espresso, need to buy discounted ticket for travel in Portugal)

So you have to spend a total of three travel days for your trip from and to Lisboa, having two left for going Paris - Bruxelles - Amsterdam.
If you want to visit Bruxelles is a day you should consider going by TGV from Paris to Lille and continue from there by IC to Bruxelles (cheaper than Thalys but a lot faster than the no-supplement alternative). From Bruxelles to Amsterdam you then could go in the evening by IC (not too late so you can still pitch your tent ;) ).

elmariachi
Traveller
24 comments

humm it got confusing again... I'm going to play dumb and ask for a discounted ticket and do the three ticket thing. If they won't let me, oh well... it's a 9 day trip ...

elmariachi
Traveller
24 comments

my tickets are bought but I didnt get a reservation for the back trip from Paris to Irun... Ill have to do it using regional trains.

Where can I consult a timetable and see what trains I have to catch?

thanks

SiDUDe
Traveller
752 comments

have a look [u]https://rail.cc/en/search-interrail-route[/u] but it isnt giving any useful results straight away - youll have to split the trip up somewhere and look for regional trains. My guess is it isnt doable in a day.

elmariachi
Traveller
24 comments

hey! thanks Im planning my route now. I'm in some trouble though... how can i book a thalys ticket between Paris and Amsterdam using the interrail pass?

elmariachi
Traveller
24 comments

is it safe to book trains from Paris to amsterdam when I arrive at Paris? I mean.. it's august and I alrady don't have a booking for the TGV for the return trip... I need to catch a train in Irun by 22:00 and I don't know how am I going to get there..

Peter
Traveller
9333 comments

THALYS: booking only via phone or at a station if you want to use them with InterRail
TGV: booking at stations only - book as early as you can if you know the exact date.

For Amsterdam to Paris read here for cheaper connections than by THALYS:
[u]https://rail.cc/en/amsterdam-paris-train/f1472[/u]